Herc Chats UpVERONICA MARS Creator Rob Thomas!!

I am – Hercules!!

Rob Thomas created UPN’s “Veronica Mars” (a hilarious and enormously compelling series that stands out even in the kind of freshman class that includes the likes of “Battlestar Galactica” and “Lost”), and before that ABC’s wondrous “Cupid,” which starred Paula Marshall and Jeremy Piven. A statue should be erected in his honor, a very shiny plaque at minimum.

Ain’t It Cool swapped lots of email with Thomas between March 31 and April 19. The result follows.

.... AICN: At the Paley Fest's "Veronica Mars" event two weeks ago, everybody kept making mention of how much darker the pilot script was than what actually found its way to air. Was Lilly decapitated? Were there depictions of Veronica covering post-rape bruising with body makeup?
.... THOMAS: It was darker in tone, because the original pilot story left Veronica and Keith estranged. Veronica discovered, at the end of the pilot script, that Keith had been keeping her mother's letters from her. Also, the aftermath of the rape was a bit more graphic. We found her car vandalized. Graffiti on it read "Abel, it should've been her" with an arrow pointing to the driver's side window. Lilly was originally found submerged in the ocean a la Laci Peterson.
....You can actually download the original pilot script on my website www.slaverats.com.

.... AICN: I'm assuming that, if the first season hasn't wrapped, you're at least within spitting distance. How many more first-season installments will feature guest superstar Alyson Hannigan?
.... THOMAS: Just one more [tonight’s]. Originally she was going to be in the finale, but she booked a pilot, and we couldn't quite make the dates work. We hope to see more of her next year, but it'll depend, to a large degree, on whether her new show goes to series.

.... AICN: The backstory attending "Veronica Mars" stretches far before the title character's birth. Is it safe to say Keith Mars grew up outside Neptune? Jake Kane obviously did go to Neptune High, but was he a Weevil-like have-not at the time? Was Lianne a rich girl when Jake was chasing her about?
.... THOMAS: In the original pilot script Keith talked about driving around Schenectady as a 20-year-old. Before casting Enrico, the line was Omaha, so I had originally wanted a very middle-American dad to play against the wealthy beach town folk. Enrico did look very Nebraskan, thus the change to Schenectady.
....Though it was never spelled out, I've always imagined that the Jake/Lianne relationship mirrored the Veronica/Duncan relationship. Working class girl. Preppy boy.

.... AICN: We now know that Veronica's hometown is modeled on Santa Barbara. But the show feels somehow like it's set further south. Does Neptune nestle in the O.C.?
.... THOMAS: More like San Juan Capistrano.

.... AICN: I remember registering some surprise when it was revealed Duncan Kane dumped Veronica *before* young Lilly's demise. Am I remembering correctly? Did Veronica never ask Duncan about the whys and wherefores of their untimely de-coupling?
.... THOMAS: He never gave her a chance. It was like a faucet the suddenly turned off. The break up pre-dated the murder by only a couple of weeks, so by the time Veronica might have mustered the wherewithal to demand an answer, the breakup took a back seat to the murder.

.... AICN: We do learn in the season finale why Duncan dumped Veronica, right?
.... THOMAS: Even sooner than that.

.... AICN: Like all right-thinking Americans, I was also nerdishly obsessed in the 1990s with ABC's short-lived "Cupid." I know you created and wrote for it, but I've no idea if you held "showrunner" status. If you will, kindly compare and contrast the creative control you enjoyed now versus then.
.... THOMAS: I created Cupid after only a season television experience writing for season one of Dawson's Creek. ABC hired showrunners to run Cupid, but from the beginning I shepherded half the episodes and Jeff Reno and Ron Osborn, the Moonlighting guys they hired, shepherded the other half. Eight episodes into the season, ABC asked Columbia Tri Star to fire Reno and Osborn and promote me to EP and showrunner.
....Reno and Osborn believe I pulled off some Machiavellian scheme to have them ousted. I didn't. I liked them and thought they were terrific writers. As far as shotgun weddings go, it was better than most. Those guys were a bit jokier than I was, and I think Jeremy Piven preferred my scripts and wanted me running the show. Jeremy had Jamie Tarses's ear. That's how I think it went down, but it was all a bit murky.
....When Cupid was struggling, the studio, in particular, and to a much lesser extent, the network tried to "fix" the show. They wanted more upbeat endings, more stunt casting. We'd have script and cut notes meetings that would take an hour or longer. There was constant creative interference from both entities, but, really, primarily from the studio. The network executives really did like the show, and other than canceling us, were very supportive.
....But it was a struggle every week to get my vision on the screen.
....With Veronica Mars, things are very different. UPN and Warner Brothers couldn't support us more creatively. I can't tell you how rare it is to have a network not try to "fix" a show when it's not doing the numbers they want. UPN has told us. "You're doing the show we want. It's our job to bring the viewers to it." They treat me as though we were a top ten show. They certainly give feedback, and they ask questions, and they do give notes, but they're on the same page, and, honestly, they're usually good notes. Also rare.
....When I was doing Cupid, I was working with Scott Winant, the director/producer who's done My So Called Life and thirtysomething. He handled production and post production. All I had to do was work with the writing staff and churn out scripts. Consequently, I wrote a lot more scripts on Cupid. With Veronica Mars, I spend a lot more time on the cuts, casting, sound, score than I ever did with Cupid. I write fewer scripts, though I'm in the room breaking each episode, and I do a set of notes and polish each script.
....I'm not sure if I've become a better writer in the gap between Cupid and Veronica Mars, but I know I've become a better producer.

.... AICN: A recent episode dealt with a student-teacher affair. Did anything like this ever transpire during your tenure as a high school instructor? Do you think this sort of thing is like amnesia -- something you see all the time in TV and movies, but (Mary Kay Laturno notwithstanding) almost never in life?
.... THOMAS: Actually, I think it probably happens at every other high school in the country. My first novel dealt with this subject. The best teacher at the high school I attended did jail time for his relationship with a female student, and I based Rats Saw God on a fictional interpretation of the affair as seen through the eyes of a jealous boyfriend. Interestingly, I also wrote the Pacey sleeps with teacher episode of Dawson's Creek. (Or maybe that's not interesting.)

.... AICN: Teens being incredibly volatile and almost organically unable to keep their mouths shut, how can any teacher hope to get away with this? Did your school's best teacher yell "I regret nothing!" as he was hauled off to stir?
.... THOMAS: I don't think there's a lot of rational thought that goes into these relationships.
....I was no longer around when that particular teacher was arrested, but I can almost guarantee you it was not a defiant moment for him.

.... AICN: The Lynn Echolls disappearance plotline defies pattern because it stretches over several episodes but is not tied to Lilly's murder. Or is it?
.... THOMAS: I think I'll take the fifth on this one.

.... AICN: Are you wholly satisfied masterminding one of TV's most beloved shows, or does ambition drive you these days to actively contemplate new series and/or features?
.... THOMAS: I am both satisfied and ambitious. I have a project at FX right now, a comedy in the British "Office" vein about cater-waiters in Los Angeles. Musicians, actors, writers, comedians who follow their dream to Hollywood and find themselves at 30 wondering whether it's time to give up the dream and get a real job. I'm doing the show with friends -- Paul Rudd, (Veronica Mars producer) Dan Etheridge and (Veronica Mars writer) John Enbom. We just got a pretty positive reaction to the script. Now, we were developing this before Veronica Mars was ever ordered to series. We originally sold it to HBO, but they wanted it to be more inside-showbiz show and we wanted it to be more of an outside-showbiz show.
....I'd also like to do a companion piece to Veronica Mars, own a whole night on UPN. I've been adapting my third novel, Satellite Down, into a pilot that I'd love to sell to UPN next year. It's an edgy, teen-centric show that would be a perfect fit.
....That said, if nothing happens with any other irons I have in the fire, I'm completely happy right now. This has been a big 39th year for me. New show. New baby. New wife. I'm as happy as I've ever been.
....As proud as I am of season one of Veronica Mars, I think we've gotten better as the season has gone on, and I think the creative peaks for most shows happen in season 2 and 3. We've come up with the big mystery for season 2, and I can't wait to introduce it.

....

.... AICN: Enough with the teasing! Will the season-two mystery be related in any way to the events of season one? Can you say if the season-two mystery will involve a murder?
.... THOMAS: I'd love to be able to answer that, but if the case isn't related to Season 1, I'd still want the events of Season 1 to serve as a red herring. If it is related to season 1, then I would want the new people we bring in for Season 2 to be suspects. I feel like I'd be eliminating half the possibilities if I answer the question.
....There will be death. And, frankly, I still think I'm saying too much.

.... AICN: Leaving aside for the moment the many filmed entertainments on which you yourself have labored, what do you believe to be the finest hourlong series ever crafted for American television?
.... THOMAS: The show I most adore would be The Office, but you've limited me to American series. I'd put Mr. Show on the short list. The Sopranos. Freaks and Geeks. If the Simpsons would've called it quits after season five, it would be there for me. Oh, wait. I can't read. You said hour-long. Uh...then I'll stick with Freaks and Geeks and The Sopranos.

.... AICN: I have white-hot fiery love for "Freaks and Geeks." Did you see Fox's "Undeclared"? It was Judd Apatow's kinda-sequel to "Geeks," and may have been every bit as good.
.... THOMAS: I'll admit that I merely liked Undeclared. I loved F&G.

.... AICN: Did you see the last "Sopranos" season with Steve Buscemi? Do you feel the show gets better as it goes along? Or do you feel it peaked with Nancy Marchand?
.... THOMAS: I don't think it's lost steam. I think some fans who show up for mob hits might have lost some enthusiasm, but Tony's journey is every bit as complex and interesting as it was in the first season -- for me.

.... AICN: At the '80s dance Duncan was dressed as Duckie from "Pretty in Pink." When you were in high school, with which John Hughes character did you most identify?
.... THOMAS: If you limit me to John Hughes movies, my unfortunate choice would have to be Emilio Estevez in Breakfast Club. I was very much the straight and narrow all-American jock who wanted everyone to like him. The biggest teen movie influence on me, however, would've been Nicolas Cage in Valley Girl. I quit playing football at TCU, shaved and dyed my hair in odd places, started a band, began dressing Salvation Army chic.

.... AICN: Kristen Bell has told TV Guide that 1.22 will be a cliffhanger, but we won't learn of the Big Mystery of Season Two until the latter part of 2.1. Confirm or deny!
.... THOMAS: Confirmed.

.... AICN: Have you seen "Cutter's Way"? What's the best movie ever?
.... THOMAS: Oh, I can watch The Big Lebowski every month. I loved Rushmore. The Bad News Bears.

.... AICN: It was revealed this week that pretty journalism instructor Mallory Dent was sidelined by pregnancy! Care to speculate as to whom might be the father? Hasn't Duane Daniels been playing Van Clemmons much more guiltily in recent weeks??
.... THOMAS: Anyone who is playing close attention would know instantly that it was Vinnie Van Lowe.

.... AICN: Do you think there's any chance Veronica will NOT somehow follow Keith into private investigation or law enforcement?
.... THOMAS: No. Cancellation will be the only thing that could stop Veronica from a career in law enforcement.

.... AICN: I wonder if, given the rigors of producing as fine a show as "Veronica Mars," you've seen much television this season. How much have you glimpsed of "Lost," "Battlestar Galactica," or "Medium," for example?
.... THOMAS: I've seen five episodes of Lost. A friend gave them to me on a DVD. I enjoyed them, but I suppose I didn't get hooked enough to Tivo it each week afterwards. I haven't seen Medium or Battlestar Galactica, but the glowing reviews of BG have made me set my Tivo. I want to catch it from the beginning of a cycle, though.

.... AICN: The title sequence. I can't fast-forward fast enough through the "Enterprise" and "Medium" titles, but that "We Used To Be Friends" song gets the blood pumping every week. From which episode comes that great final shot of Kristen Bell, as she stalks slow-mo toward the camera with that pissed-off look on her kisser? What is she thinking as she glares our way?
.... THOMAS: We shot that bit specifically for the title sequence. It's so difficult getting enough footage for main titles when you only have one episode under your belt that we shot some extra footage during the pilot. I love Kristen's _expression. It's not my favorite outfit, though. She's thinking, "Can they please write a B story that doesn't involve Veronica, so I can have a day off."

.... AICN: Have you had a gander at UPN's hourlong development slate? If UPN's Dawn Ostroff sauntered up and said you could could have any lead-in except your pal Joel Silver's "The Studio," would your pick be the latest "America's Next Top Model"?
.... THOMAS: My pick would be Top Model. It's their biggest show. I feel like we retain the audience that sees watches us a couple of times, but it's difficult to get people to switch to UPN. I say that, however, not knowing the premise of any of the UPN pilots.

.... AICN: Are you aware in any way of how thoroughly your show has been embraced by fans of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? Do you feel any obligation to purchase and watch at least the season-two box set?
.... THOMAS: I am aware of the number of Buffy fans that have become Veronica Mars fans. I've seen enough of Buffy to understand why. While I don't really feel obligated to watch Buffy's second season, I might find time to do it this summer anyway.

Look! Shows enjoyed by
“Veronica Mars” mastermind Rob Thomas:
Freaks and Geeks
The Office
The Simpsons
The Sopranos

Look! More genius shows
featuring plucky female protagonists:
Alias
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Freaks and Geeks
Gilmore Girls
Wonderfalls

Look! Books written by Rob Thomas!
The type one reads:
Rats Saw God
Satellite Down
Green Thumb

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