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David Milch On
JOHN FROM CINCINNATI:
‘I Don’t Know What It’s About!!’

I am – Hercules!!
“I don’t know what it’s about. I don’t know the bottom line,” “John From Cincinnati” mastermind David Milch told Craig Ferguson Thursday night. “But if God were trying to reach out to us, and if he felt a certain urgency about it: That’s what it’s about.” Milch, who attended Yale with the president, also says he’s never surfed. “If God were trying to reach out to us, and teach us something, the deepest nature of matter, he might use some drugged-out surfers.” Will there be more “Deadwood”? “One hopes,” Milch told Ferguson and his CBS late-night audience. “It’s kind of a fluid situation over [at HBO] right now.”





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Readers Talkback
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  • July 20, 2007 3:53 AM CST

    First?

    by An-Akin

    John from....SUCKS!

  • July 20, 2007 3:54 AM CST

    Well at least he's honest

    by Ribbons

    Gotta admire that, I guess.

  • July 20, 2007 4:19 AM CST

    What if God were one of us?

    by newc0253

    hey, that would make a great song, huh?

  • July 20, 2007 5:26 AM CST

    Mastermind?

    by Wogga Wogga

    The show is just a random sequence of words strung together. Even a monkey could do that. Or a computer. I call shenanigans on Milch.

  • July 20, 2007 5:41 AM CST

    Not exactly inspiring comments, are they?

    by Angry Mean Panda

    I've never believed that a creator has to have every single detail planned out from the beginning, but having a general idea of what the fuck is going on with your own characters....that's probably useful.

  • July 20, 2007 6:03 AM CST

    Let me get this straight...

    by MyManD316

    All this meaningless shit we've been getting from the show week in and week out really don't have a purpose? Last episode where everyone got together for a fucking spontaneous barbecue had no reason? What the fuck?

  • July 20, 2007 6:21 AM CST

    What if it's really about....

    by rosasaks

    Dave from Cleveland.

  • July 20, 2007 6:30 AM CST

    Or....

    by rosasaks

    Mike from Oklahoma.

  • July 20, 2007 6:31 AM CST

    Maybe it's about....

    by rosasaks

    Pete from Pittsburgh.

  • July 20, 2007 6:43 AM CST

    I had really hoped for sci-fi, too

    by MyManD316

    Stupid Bible allusions. John from Cincinnati, Jesus Christ (JC? Brillient Mr. Milch!). All the talk about his father and forgiveness the last episode. Coming back from the dead. Shit, this is pissing me off because Milch took the easy road. Give me fucking aliens.

  • July 20, 2007 6:55 AM CST

    Alternatively...

    by Sledge Hammer

    ...he may have just been JOKING. But no, let's all take his words as being purely and completely literal and 100% honest, because no one ever plays coy or takes the piss on talk shows like Ferguson's. You know, just like how everyone always gives away exactly what's going to happen on upcoming episodes of their show so that no one in the audience has to bother watching. Seriously, unless this is your first week watching television, I don't know why you'd be making such a big deal over a typical nothing tv chatshow appearance. Yeesh.

  • July 20, 2007 7:26 AM CST

    HBO: Hurry up with Preacher will ya?!

    by wowsah156

    Hurry up HBO. We want Preacher now!!!

  • July 20, 2007 7:28 AM CST

    some things I know, some things I don't....

    by Russman

    Okay, so John is some kind of messenger from God. Okay, I can dig it.

  • July 20, 2007 7:39 AM CST

    HBO: Don't bother with Preacher right now...

    by Abin Sur

    I want to hear me the Song of Ice and Fire!

  • July 20, 2007 8:35 AM CST

    no, Milch wasn't kidding

    by eppdude

    I saw the interview. When Craig asked him what the show was about, he was literally stumped.

  • July 20, 2007 8:41 AM CST

    It figures as much.

    by Neo Zeed

    I saw last night's Craig Ferguson as well. That Milch quote is totally indicative of JFC's episodes. Just winging it from one episode to the next. Bring on the new HBO shows!

  • July 20, 2007 8:48 AM CST

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    by ScamsAndFlams

    I hope this takes some heat off the LOST guys.

  • July 20, 2007 8:55 AM CST

    Uhhh, uhhh

    by tonamania

    yeah. sure. Way to promote a show. piece of garbage. I wish Ed O'neal could get a gig in something decent.

  • July 20, 2007 8:56 AM CST

    oookay..but which god?

    by fried samurai

    The blood thirsty,gay bashing Christian god?I'd prefer it be one of the more peaceful gods like Zeus or Moloch.

  • July 20, 2007 8:58 AM CST

    Why isn't GOD alien? Or interdimensional?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Why assume GOD is a religious construct?

    By the very definition of supernatural being GOD is the ULTIMATE alien. we can NEVER conceive the mind of GOD. We can never comprehend the motivations of GOD.

    Clarke, Arthur C not Stanley, said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Creation can be TEC HNOLOGICAL.

    GOD may be "Consciousness-Without-an-Object".

    GOD may be NON-LOCAL information.

    Read up on Leary's EIGHT CIRCUIT BRAIN, which Robert Anton Wilson related to Star Trek.

    John doesn't need to be about religion, but MAN tends to see religion.

  • July 20, 2007 9:08 AM CST

    Disturbing Revelation...

    by Philvis

    I love the show and part of that is because it keeps you guessing. You really don't know what is really going on or why, but you have an idea of it, and that keeps you coming back. Now if the creator honestly doesn't know what is going on, it makes me feel like I am being strung along. I know they don't have every episode planned out, but geez, you can't have a show with a premise like this without an idea of what is really going on. Give me a break.

  • July 20, 2007 9:24 AM CST

    Milch, go back to Yale.

    by Stuntcock Mike

    Maybe they can teach you to complete a thought.

  • July 20, 2007 9:34 AM CST

    You're missing the obvious answer...

    by Savage Lucy

    He is actually Dr. Johnny Fever from WKRP. Fever is actually a timelord and the J from C character is having a bad regeneration.

  • July 20, 2007 9:45 AM CST

    Fuck This. Bring on Preacher.

    by Johnny Storm

    What the fuck is HBO waiting for? Garth Ennis says they love the script and that it's an exact translation of the comic book. So WTF?

  • July 20, 2007 10:06 AM CST

    Don't wish for Preacher too quickly

    by SoupDragon

    HBO still need time to come to their senses and shitcan Mark Steven Johnson first.

  • July 20, 2007 10:16 AM CST

    There's no chance of JFC being renewed...............

    by crackerfarmboy

    It's done. Even those who would consider themselves fans have no idea what the fuck is going on. What's worse is apparantly the creator of the show has no idea what the fuck is going on. How can this show survive?

  • July 20, 2007 10:28 AM CST

    Milch is being modest

    by Markk

    Watch the last episode. It is a tour de force of character exposition. The hotel cookout is one of the most intricate and poetic monologues I've seen in some time. Like the show or not, it is not some haphazard amalgam of notions. Milch has a very clear idea about what he's doing. How can you watch John's dissection of Cissy and believe that David Milch doesn't know what he's doing with this show, or what it's about? How could you watch Deadwood or NYPD Blue and believe that he is incompetent or incoherent? I didn't see the Ferguson interview, but I suspect he was simply disinclined to sermonize on the metaphysics that underpin John From Cincinnati (i.e. Jesus F Christ) to someone who had decided to play dumb about it. Craig is a witty guy, but also a postmodern smartass who is impervious to anything that deliberately strives for the numinous. The point is that the show is not hard to parse, so if you claim not to understand its premise or intent, you are probably being disingenuous. Also, Milch may want viewers to make up their own minds about what's happening. Clearly, he has some strong opinions about free will. It's not a perfect show, obviously. But as a parable about redemption and mercy, it has one or two useful thoughts to share, I think. If I were Milch, I wouldn't care to explain that theme explicitly either. It just invites mockery by people who are uncomfortable with such things.

  • July 20, 2007 10:29 AM CST

    Other than the Wire HBO also has

    by Larry of Arabia

    Flight of the Conchords. It's not for everyone, but it's damn funny if your on it's wavelength. Big Love is far from great, but it is a decent diversion. And then there is that sex show they are developing...

  • July 20, 2007 10:43 AM CST

    At least he admits it (JJ Abrams I'm looking at you)

    by Yeti

    Honesty is becomming a lost art

  • July 20, 2007 10:52 AM CST

    what a boring show.

    by Boomers_Lips

    i saw one of the episodes last night during HBO's 3rd marathon and i found it awfully boring.

  • July 20, 2007 10:53 AM CST

    DO wish for Preacher

    by JackKennedy

    Mark Steven Johnson is actually a pretty good screenwriter. The Daredevil script was excellent. As long as Ennis is involved I have faith. Even a mediocre Preacher is better than anything new that HBO is doing now...

  • July 20, 2007 10:57 AM CST

    Why am I not fucking surprised?

    by Al Swearengen

    Lest he wants to get fucking fleeced, a man's got to know his full fucking purpose.

  • July 20, 2007 11:12 AM CST

    The power of words like "might", "could", and "maybe".

    by GreatCzarsGhost

    That's a great quote from Milch and is 100% truth all because of the work "might". This is the cornerstone of JFC. There might be something profound happening here. It could be the most important show in the history of Television or maybe even God is speaking to us all through JFC. Ah shit, it's probably just a bunch of Hollywood people having a good laugh at all us yahoos trying to figure out the crap they put on the screen. Either way, I'm watching and enjoying the ride.

  • July 20, 2007 11:40 AM CST

    BBQ, no meaning? What?

    by bobkayakbob

    Look up Hebrews 9 11 14. It's all about redemption. The figure that john keeps drawing with his foot, the trinity. To think that Milch don't know what the show is about is far fetched.

  • July 20, 2007 11:59 AM CST

    I want to know

    by imageburn13

    what its about too! Really, I watched last weeks ep and was totally clusterfu**ed. I can understand that the bbq was character exposition (markk) but it is really hard to digest if you havent been following from the beginning. I kept thinking, 'Well, whatever fans they had up to now, they've lost those too'. And the fact that HBO is advertising "All three previous episaodes back to back to back" is a desperate attempt to catch people up before they completely lose the audience.

  • July 20, 2007 12:29 PM CST

    Someone explain Family pic and window exchange.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    I couldn't understand the family shot from the BBQ. You had the Yosts, including Butchie and Tina, in the rear. Dead guy in the middle. And Butchie Kai in front. Why was Butchie twice? And how is the dead guy involved with the Yosts?

    I didn't get John and Linc exchanging spots in the window reflection.

    Who was the new guy with the dorag? Who was Aliman (sp?)

    I loved the Tina (pornstar) Shawn ( Risen from the dead) lunch of Tuna on Wonderbread. So Ozzie and Harriet/Leave it to Beaver.

    John is definitely NOT for the anti-intellectual crowd, for that matter Deadwood wasn't either.

    Last episode was almost Shakespearean.

  • July 20, 2007 1:00 PM CST

    Bailey Salinger and Jennifer Love Hewitt...

    by rosasaks

    Do the Ickey shuffle at the WKRP.

  • July 20, 2007 1:27 PM CST

    I agree, I think he's being modest...

    by RedJester

    or he really doesn't feel like explaining it to Craig, or he knows that explaining it to Craig would totally ruin what the shows built up so far, or he really doesn't have any clue whatsoever what he's doing... God I hope it's not the latter.

  • July 20, 2007 1:41 PM CST

    John isn't Jesus.

    by loafmeat

    He is the herald. Shawnie is Jesus.

  • July 20, 2007 1:42 PM CST

    David M. what an A-hole

    by jbs0209

    I just finished watching Deadwood episode 1 with the commentary by David
    What an A-hole. I have never had a commentary rub me so wrong.
    Not Logan's Run & the costume designer (stupid & silly), or Scorpion King & The Rock taking a cell phone call from his Mom (funny).
    This guy was just an annoying jerk. Really took something of the wonder away from Deadwood.

  • July 20, 2007 1:44 PM CST

    John is the Usher

    by jbs0209

    Shawnie is the Omega

  • July 20, 2007 1:47 PM CST

    Am I stuck in some kind of time warp here?

    by Filmrage

    I live in Korea so i download tv stuff on torrents and I saw Milch talking to Fergusson about month ago. Is this a report on that episode? Was it repeated last night or something? The last Episode of J From C was beyond Lynchian and without the atmospheric flare but the scene with John at the kitchen window was pretty funny. I'm an orphan so i can only imagine but how messed up would a boy be if his mom jacked him off when he was 13? Splains a lot about Butchie.

  • July 20, 2007 1:48 PM CST

    See God Kai

    by loafmeat

    as the camera freeze frames a shot of Shawnie skating.

  • July 20, 2007 2:26 PM CST

    Just saw the interview. Milch is trying to be funny

    by RedJester

    I just saw the interview. Milch is merely trying to be funny and entertaining, nothing more nothing less. He didn't literally mean he has no idea where the shows headed or what it's about. If anything he just meant that his writing has allowed JFC to be much more interpretive and less "in your face, spell it out for you, hold your hand throughout the show" as were his prior ventures.

  • July 20, 2007 2:33 PM CST

    And if saw last weeks episode and still hate the show,

    by RedJester

    you're an idiot. That episode was great. <--- Period. And anyone who says differently IS the reason movies like transformers are more succesful than all those "eternal sunshines" and "thin red lines" out there.

  • July 20, 2007 2:43 PM CST

    I can't believe this show would actually get renewed

    by _Maltheus_

    It's not like I'm not trying. Deadwood was incredible and HBO shows tend to take some investment before they pay off, but I can only see this one getting worse. I was sort of enjoying things up until the last episode. I'm not even sure what I hated about it. I guess I don't like scenes that are happening, but not really happening. My least favorite Sopranos eps were the dream ones. I hate when they go back in time in Star Trek and reset everything. And I didn't like this barbecue that, obviously, no one will remember. If I recall, it wasn't just John who was in two places at once. The only good thing that's come from this show is the "whipping the skippy" expression. I can't imagine this show has many viewers, if they renew it whilst canceling Deadwood, Carnivale and Rome, then the shareholders should demand that the HBO board all be drug tested. No network has ever perplexed me more. It's like they have industrial saboteurs over there or something.

  • July 20, 2007 2:46 PM CST

    You're the same people who hated Carnivale...

    by RedJester

    Until it ended, and then you bitched that there weren't any shows like Carnivale anymore. Remember how all of you bitched at how bad and or disappointing Carnivales first season was and how it didn't deserve a second season. And then the second season came out , and it rocked harder as every episode progressed? And when it didn't get a third season, that became your swan song for everything that was wrong with HBO. Well I have news for you. This first season of JFC is better (as will be proven when the season ends) than Carnivales first season and Milch is involved, so what's stopping you from learning on past mistakes and giving this show a chance to progress??? Sigh some people will never learn.

  • July 20, 2007 2:58 PM CST

    Yale with the President?

    by torontoxic

    wtf?

    I only watched the show for some surfing. I could care less now about pretty boys Rain man shtick. I bought into this show and feel like I've been burned for it.

  • July 20, 2007 3:09 PM CST

    WHAT!

    by Demosthenes2

    Well at least he's honest when I'm sure people at Lost have been fudging when they say they know everything that's going on. But still... Kinda makes you less interested in the show, since I'm sure that means that everything's going to be left open-ended for interpretation. *pukes*

  • July 20, 2007 3:11 PM CST

    The last time someone said shit like this, it was

    by smackfu

    The Stephen King Dark Tower series? Bad? You're crazy. Sure, Song of Suzanna was a pretty weak link but overall the series was fantastic. Each book is very different from the others in plotting, theme and overall feel, and great in their own way for different reasons.

  • July 20, 2007 3:18 PM CST

    I am SICK TO FUCKING DEATH with these guys...

    by ejcarter9

    ... who manage to make millions off of a half-assed premise. I am really, really seriously pissed off about this. How can you have ANY artistic integrity and at the same time commit money and people to a project and you don't even know what the point of the project is? Why on Earth would anyone GIVE money to someone who doesn't know the whole story?

    And what pisses me off even more is that if I went to Hollywood with a script or two that I had been working on for years, put my heart and soul into it and knew every aspect of the story... beginning, middle AND FUCKING END, there's a zero percent chance it'll get bought. But someone's friend of a friend can pitch a two-sentence half-assed idea to some producer and walk away with a million-dollar check. IT'S BULLSHIT!

  • July 20, 2007 3:26 PM CST

    LONG LIVE CRAIG FERGUSON!

    by IForgotAbout19

    That's all

  • July 20, 2007 3:27 PM CST

    JFC = John From Cincinati or Jesus Fucking Christ?

    by smackfu

    ?

  • July 20, 2007 3:28 PM CST

    LONG LIVE CARNIVALE!

    by IForgotAbout19

    Wasn't it Jesus H Christ? as in Handsome? Where was he when Carnivale needed him?!

  • July 20, 2007 3:47 PM CST

    No, I loved Carnivale...

    by _Maltheus_

    ...even more so in season 1, than in season 2. I agree that most people were hating on it back then, but it had a clear direction, even if it moved too slow for some. JFC? I'm not ready to give up on it, but there's very little story going on. I don't even care if it has a direction or not, it's just not doing a good job at keeping my interest. Most of the characters are unlikable and it doesn't have the dreamy atmosphere that the 30's dustbowl had (which was enough during the slow parts). The only thing it has going for it is that it's airing in the summer when I'm desperate for any new TV. Big Love is a much better show IMO.

  • July 20, 2007 4:37 PM CST

    C'mon now...

    by Pool Shark 04

    Let's give Milch the benefit of the doubt here. Unlike other writers/creators who have left us hanging in the past (I got my eye on you Chase!), he's always come through. I'll have some faith, plus he may have been fucking with us. Love the Deadwood reunion he's got going on too. Dylan Mckay, Al Bundy, and now...Zack Morris! All in the same show...beautiful! John is a prophet...

  • July 20, 2007 4:48 PM CST

    AINT IT OLD NEWS

    by Chip Butty

    Jesus, this particular talk show episode aired a month and a half ago. So now reruns of talk shows pass for news??? Oh, and the majority of talkbackers in this talkback are flaming imebeciles, JFC is a great, fascinating, unusual show, whether the creator knows what's going on or not!

  • July 20, 2007 5:15 PM CST

    Stop fkkin around and close up Deadwood already

    by Anino

    wu custah city back deadwood, one hundred fifty chung-gwo cocksuckah! Hung-dai fukkin wu.

  • July 20, 2007 5:23 PM CST

    re: AnimalStructure

    by _Maltheus_

    I thought that was good too, when it was true. But HBO has long since abandon that philosophy. They cancel everything that's not an instant Soprano's style hit. That's why I'm surprised by JFC. It may end up being great someday, but even if you like it, you have to understand that it'll never get an audience as big as their other shows. It seems strange that they'd throw all their support behind this one when even the creator doesn't seem all that enthused by it. For me, all the other HBO shows had a great concept. We're still trying to figure out what JFC's concept is. It's still somewhat intriguing to me, I just don't know how long that'll last.

  • July 20, 2007 5:25 PM CST

    Yes, It Was A Repeat

    by ROBRAM89

    I noticed that even before he came on. Rosy Perez was on before him (there's a combo for you) and I noticed it was easily a month old episode. Come on, people.

  • July 20, 2007 5:45 PM CST

    ARLISS MICHAELS>ARI GOLD

    by iwontwin

    Yea thats right.

  • July 20, 2007 6:01 PM CST

    He didn't know what Deadwood was about either...

    by EUROPA

    The second season of Deadwood fell the fuck apart...you could tell he was just winging it. I haven't watched this newest piece of shit show this ass hound has made.

  • July 20, 2007 6:02 PM CST

    Stupid Stupid people

    by coop

    I'll interpret for you.

    1)He knows who the characters are and what they represent.

    2)He knows what the show is about, (The world is coming to an end and God wants to send the world a message and help it come together before the end).

    What he doesn't know is where the characters and theme will take the show. There is no arc outside of a beginning and an end.

    It doesn't mean he's just writing nonsense that has no meaning or plot. It means that what happens with these characters who will have to deal with their situation is still up in the air.

  • July 20, 2007 8:17 PM CST

    Where's the new prez is a chick feedback on 24???

    by Trader Groucho 2

    It's Cherry Jones, aka Linus' (Matt Damon's mom) in Oceans 12. Now to me that's perfect casting, because the president should be a smoother motherfucking liar....

  • July 20, 2007 8:19 PM CST

    Markk

    by JFilm101

    Good observation, esp as it regards to the pursuit of the numinous in an all ironic / cynical age. Have not seen "John" yet but based on these recent talkbacks it has become must view material. Fried Samurai: I'm assuming you don't know Sojourners -- a magazine for the leftist Christians who believe, generally speaking, in the same God that most other Christians believe in.

  • July 20, 2007 9:14 PM CST

    I don't know Butchie instead.

    by Pabodie

    Two Butchies (?): Avatar concept (more than one of each character, literally). Duality of the character (sweet Butchie vs. mad-ass Butchie). Butchie's life story (shown with Cissy, his first lover and Kai, his last). "Linc Stark needs to get back in the game." Linc wasn't pulled to the Snug Harbor apostles cookout. Why? Is he the temple of the money changers? (Tidbit: Luke Perry. Gospel of Luke is only book of New Testament that is explicit about a virgin birth.) Doo-rag Dude: (Allemande?) Wasn't he the guy who stabbed John? "Cass's camera is huge." Live action footage of the second coming. Shawnie will not be here much longer. This talkback is better than most shows. You guys keep writing.

  • July 20, 2007 10:53 PM CST

    Don't be silly

    by MoleyRusselsWart

    I like it. I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. Acting needs much help, but the script is good and the premise is great. It's like Lost in as much as I'm along for the ride. Just don't leave me hanging, a la Carnivale.

  • July 20, 2007 11:44 PM CST

    See, now that's upsetting...

    by DanielKurland

    I may not understand half the stuff Lynch does, but there are times I do, and I can tell that everything he does makes perfect sense to him. That's a lot different than just being weird and obtuse for the sake of it.

  • July 21, 2007 1:41 AM CST

    SEE GOD KAI

    by loafmeat

    SHAWNIE YOST IS JESUS. He did raise the dead (the bird) and then was resurrected himself... I better get credit from you fuckwads when he turns out to be the second coming...

  • July 21, 2007 2:34 AM CST

    Lest not forget John was resurrected as well.

    by RedJester

    Maybe he is Jesus and the powers everyone else has obtained are from their interactions with him, rubbed off on them if you will. JFC= Jesus Fucking Christ??? Or he could be John the Baptist. Or no one is Jesus, who knows really? The possibilities of what this show is about are endless...

  • July 21, 2007 8:19 AM CST

    Jesus, Mary and Joseph.....

    by Convert

    Now I wish I had spent less time counting holes in the ceiling tiles and more time paying attention to the characters in CCD when I was a kid! If JFC is Jesus...Cass is Mary Magdalene... Bill is John the Baptist, maybe? Who are the other desciples? Joe? Butchie? Freddy? Palaka? Doc? Help me out here, people....I went to public school, for cryin' out loud!

  • July 21, 2007 12:03 PM CST

    Rise of JfC...

    by REDD

    John Monad (AKA Norin Radd) is actually the the Herald of Galactus, and Mitch Yost is really Reed Richards on sabatical.

  • July 21, 2007 12:19 PM CST

    About Day 5

    by growltiger

    Linc was at the Snug Harbor BBQ. He stood alone.

    The juxtaposition of reflected images (John and then Linc were reflected in the storefront window) clue us to heavenly as opposed to earthly purposes and destiny.

    The vato at the BBQ was the same man who stabbed John in the van. Simultaneous to the BBQ, John, Bill, & Vietnam Joe lay dreaming and in wait for him. Ostensibly to bring him to justice. That justice I think will be poetic.

    I think we confuse Mary Magdelene with the woman who Jesus saved from the angry crowd. (This is the story about "casting the first stone.") It was never clear in the scriptures that the two are one and the same.

    Anyway, for the woman who sinned role I at first conflated with Tina. After this last episode I am thinking that Cissy might be a better fit.

    To continue with New Testament allusions, Cass seems more like the Samaratin woman at the well.

    Mitch is a pharisee. He is narcissitic and self-involved to the point that procedures of being spritual are more vital than being spritual. His confession to Cass in the motel bed that he had to lose his family to get it back was curdling.

    John from Cincinatti is brilliant. So there.

  • July 21, 2007 12:56 PM CST

    growlT

    by rbrog77

    Brilliant observations on an absolutely brilliand show.

  • July 21, 2007 1:03 PM CST

    growlT

    by Convert

    I concur. JFC is brilliant....and I guess the next book I'll be reading will be the Bible......hmph....never thought I'd be interested in those stories; but I guess although stories may change (details)...human nature remains constant through time.

  • July 21, 2007 1:10 PM CST

    Yeah it's pretty great...

    by kintar0

    but if you hate the show so much, why keep watching it? It's not like I hanged about in any Buffy or 24 talkbacks after I watches a few episodes and found them crappy. Get a fucking life. But I agree that Milch should do a sci-fi series.

  • July 21, 2007 1:28 PM CST

    resurrection

    by loafmeat

    Shawnie was spontaneously brought back from the dead, JFC was healed by the vet.

  • July 21, 2007 2:03 PM CST

    "what is your show about?" is a stupid question.

    by ashhole

    it got a stupid answer. plain and simple. i understand that a lot of people are confused by JfC, but to believe that milch is just throwing random words at the audience is absurd. over at hbo.com, one of the writers, steve hawk, has a full transcript of john monad's speech at the barbecue and an interesting quote about milch's storytelling philosophy. it gives all the information you need to know about what the show is "about". http://tinyurl.com/2m96jx

  • July 21, 2007 4:24 PM CST

    Remember 'Monadism'....

    by theseventhshore

    Yes, Milch loves the Bible. (he whips it out at writing lectures all the time). But I think it goes beyond just saying that John/Shawnie/Zippy-the-fuckingbird is the Second Coming. If a Monad (John's surname) represents the smallest possible particle/expression of God/higher Consciousness/Divine-Awareness, then it's akin to a cell in God's body that's doing its job. And I think that's what John is - and he's here to wake everyone up to their true purpose as well - getting them 'back in the game'. I believe this story is about troubled folks (ie: current society) burning away old Karma and discovering their divine nature (levitating, healing, witnessing, etc) so they can awaken others (through the camera). Just a thought...but after watching the latest ep, it really resonates.

  • July 21, 2007 6:01 PM CST

    theseventhshore = word up

    by Pabodie

    Still, it's fun to speculate. But, "We are coming 9.11.14" I think was meant literally, if nothing else was, and Butchie "The Beast" is kind of suggestive, too, don't you think?

  • July 21, 2007 7:36 PM CST

    i like the twin peak-iness of it

    by readyoufool

    that's all. it's interesting. the difference between the two plots is that peaks had a murder to set the thing off and running. JFC is like a version of peaks without the initial gun shot to set the race in motion.

  • July 21, 2007 8:36 PM CST

    So where are the talkbacks for Mad Men and Burn Notice?

    by Trader Groucho 2

    Seriously. Mad Men feels like something HBO or Showtime would do. And there's just about nothing but love for the Bruce Campbell around here. Both shows are well-written and well-acted, and these characters just feel right for the worlds they inhabit. IOW, the tone on both shows is right.

  • July 21, 2007 8:38 PM CST

    Seventh Shore

    by Trader Groucho 2

    Good analysis.

  • July 22, 2007 1:37 AM CST

    Let's put it this way:

    by RedJester

    If you have a low IQ, you'll probably hate this show. This is a show for smart people who, simply put, like to think, dig puzzles and don't need everything explained to them. Everyone else can go back to watching, oh I dunno, Entourage.

  • July 22, 2007 2:47 AM CST

    Allegory or allusion

    by growltiger

    It is good to ask if John from Cincinatti is biblical allegory or just biblical. I think it is fair to say that the jury is out on that point. John from Cincinatti is still unfolding.

    After all, Deadwood was Shakespearean but it was not necessarily Shakespeare. There is no disrespect intended to Mr Milch here. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with using Shakespeare or the New Testament for inspiration or direction. Good stuff as muses go.

  • July 22, 2007 2:59 AM CST

    Just watched it again...

    by theseventhshore

    ...and did you all notice - in that 'recurrence' shot where Butchie and Kai were sitting in the foreground and you saw him again in the background - that it was the entire Yost family (featuring smiling Mitch and a meek Tina), standing as if for a group portrait. 'In Cass' camera' lies the future of the series...the clues are all there. As mentioned above, John from Cincinnati is not Twin Peaks (which I bloody ADORE) - it's not driven by a specific moment/mystery - but by RELATIONSHIPS. The story is purely about the messed up characters, and how they find their way to happiness/peace/health/love/God.

  • July 22, 2007 10:42 AM CST

    Indelible images from Cass' camera

    by growltiger

    As John brings his soliloquy to an end he admonishes us, the assembled, that although they will not recall Cass' camera, they will not forget what they did there.

    Most of the characters were present at the Snug Harbor BBQ. Though present in image although missing in fact, we have Mitch, Saunie, Tina, Cissy (the back row of that cool tableau above mentioned by theseventhshore), Bill, Aleman, & the webmaster. I wonder how their recollection of what was done there will work?

    John also uggests that Bill will see Freddy much improved. I suppose there is some form of redemption in store for the Hawaiian dealer.

    This is quite a road map of things to come. I think that even though Mr Milch claims he does not know what John from Cincinatti is about, he has a real good idea of where he wants to take us as he unfolds the story.

  • July 22, 2007 10:48 AM CST

    Imperial Beach today, Malibu tomorrow...

    by Convert

    Bingo, 7thshore! Messed up characters...aren't we all in our own way? John is a metaphor...a mirror of the soul...and with reflection each being shall find redemption. Every character-no matter how fucked up - has a reason for being...for acting/reacting...for fear...and by doing (surfing, skating, filming, sweeping, building the court)and interacting, shall find themselves much improved...and in John's father's word, that is a lie agreed upon.

  • July 22, 2007 11:06 AM CST

    I've got my eye on John...

    by Convert

    ...and you're so right, growltiger, Milch knows exactly what he's doing and where he's taking us...straight to hell if we don't fix up the Snug Harbor motel!

  • July 22, 2007 1:15 PM CST

    I know that there are more than 12 of them, but

    by samsquanch

    Doesn't it feel like the peripheral characters are deciples in a way? The original Christian deciples were pretty different people in their lives before they met Jesus, but walked away from everything to follow him when they heard him.

  • July 22, 2007 1:15 PM CST

    i just watched...

    by buffywrestling

    five eps in a row based on the recs here and I liked them. I think...

    I'm not sure if I would have liked them as much if I had to watch them one at a time; they are just that connected to each other. I also found myself bursting out into laughter then the tone would switch immediately and I would think to myself, "Oh dear, I shouldn't have laughed there; that was so sad."

    I'm still going to stick around though. I like my TV like I like my men: full of mind games.

  • July 22, 2007 6:33 PM CST

    Old & busted: HBO

    by Dr Hemlock

    New hotness: Showtime

  • July 22, 2007 6:40 PM CST

    Stop pissing on my leg, Milch

    by Sphincterrific

    And stop telling me it's raining. This is just what we should have expected from Deadwood Guy. That show started off okay, but by the last episode it was a complete mess, due to: 1. Storylines that went nowhere. 2. Storylines, that after what seemed like forever, STILL went nowhere. 3. Dialogue that was, at times, completely unintelligible. (It's as if he had a slogan: "looping is for pussies.") 4. Entire episodes that were nothing more than grade-school exercises in iambic pentameter worship. 5. The notion that story, plot and character are nowhere near as important as a bunch of people who just talk and dress funny. Don't bother making any more Deadwoods, Milch. I won't be watching...

  • July 22, 2007 8:43 PM CST

    Freaking scary to think that

    by Snowden's Secret

    none of these effers has any idea what's actually happening in their shows. Battlestar, Lost, etc. all have vague hints of some huge, overarching meaning but actually have none? This is just one more symptom of the modern art movement where the "artist" is just lazily flinging ideas against the wall with no plan whatsoever, hoping the audience will create a coherent interpretation. Style over substance: the mantra of 21st C. U.S. culture. It's sad and shows the decadence and rot which is inherent to our entire society.

  • July 22, 2007 10:38 PM CST

    Anyone know where Bruce Greenwood went?

    by Bungion Boy

    They've mentioned him but he's been gone for 2 episodes. I don't think he left. They filmed these months ago and I'm sure there would have been some word if he was leaving completely but still curious as to why he hasn't been on. I miss him.

  • July 22, 2007 11:19 PM CST

    I think Mitch...

    by theseventhshore

    ...is the next to get 'humanized' by John. HUMBLED and BROKEN...then put back together again...is more like it. Just ask Sissy :)

  • July 23, 2007 2:38 AM CST

    The Internet is Big

    by BlackIronPrison

    It is all about the zeros and ones / circles and lines... As Milch puts it, “to survive as a species -- to be redeemed -- we need to humanize the Internet.” yostclan.com

  • July 23, 2007 9:08 AM CST

    You viewers didn't know this???

    by MinasTirithII

    I really have to question the exact intelligence of some of these viewers posts. I really don't think you guys want a ride. You want an end, a conclusion, fuck the ride. Silly, dumb viewers, please, go back to watching, uh, The Simpsons on Sunday, something you might actually understand, something effortless. Once again, they want intelligent TV, and once again, they are too stupid to see smart TV. FLIGHT OF THE CONCHORDS rawks too.

  • July 23, 2007 11:38 AM CST

    Right on Snowden's Secret

    by _Maltheus_

    You hit the nail right on the head. It's all about flinging ideas against the wall to see what sticks. Sometimes good does come out of it. But I'm getting tired of people calling it brilliance. I'm not certain where I stand on JFC, cause unlike what some people say about Lost, I feel the Milch shows really are about being along for the ride/dialog. If certain people here are right to map all the characters onto specific biblical figures, then that's a kids ride that I'd be looking to get off, hardly brilliance. It's just too early to tell. But for shows like Lost and BSG and quite frankly even the Sopranos finale, I think the creators are receiving accolades they simply aren't worthy of. Twists and gimmicks are only good if they truly serve the story, not if they're inserted merely for shock value. I'm happy for anybody who's enjoying them, but liking something doesn't make it quality anymore than disliking something means it sucks. Hollywood has reached a peak of creative laziness, also evidenced by the non-stop parade of crappy movie sequels that we're forced to endure.

  • July 23, 2007 2:32 PM CST

    Let the fundie begin

    by fried samurai

    So what passage in the Bible was last nights episode from?

  • July 23, 2007 5:32 PM CST

    sraah connor cronicles is aviable as a preair torrent

    by Mr_X

    and its a load of doggy do do. Owain Yeoman was brilliant in kitchen confidential, but him as the terminator.. wooden. and not in an arnie way. Summer Glau brilliant in firefly.. is lacklustre as another terminator.

    the events are suppsoed to be after terminator 2, which would have been great if terminator 3 didnt come out. i mean.. we already know whats going to happen anyways, armagedon arrives and connor cant stop it and we know his mother dies from cancer or some such in the t3 movie.. so we know they'll survive the tv series whatever happens. lack of suspense people. lack of suspense. there's absolute rubbish on at the moment. is it worth me watching burn notice?

  • July 23, 2007 6:36 PM CST

    an open letter to all the haters

    by Samwise Ganja

    so far "jfc" has been absolutely, mind-blowingly incredible... i think most people who dont like the show either a) dont have the right minds for it or b)are just haters for the sake of hating (which ALOT of tb'ers are).. anyhow, i found ths quote from milch himself on steve hawks' (writer on the show as mentioned multiple times above) nd i think it very succinctly explains what the show may (or may not) be about..

    "The important point that I'm trying to make is that storytelling has nothing, whatsoever, to do with logic. Logic is a limping stepchild of the true processes of the spirit. It's an illusion. It's a defective little parlor trick. Associations are the way that we perceive. Electrical connections caused by the juxtapositions of experience. That's the way we are really built, and storytelling takes into account that truth."

  • July 24, 2007 10:23 PM CST

    Bungion Boy: Bruce Greenwood was in Day 5

    by growltiger

    Although he did not have any lines to deliver. He was last seen in the tableau during the Sermon at the Snug Harbor Motel (i.e., the BBQ).

  • July 24, 2007 10:28 PM CST

    fried samurai: Think biblical and not The Bible

    by growltiger

    I do not think the writers are necessarily patterning their stories after a particular Gospel. But I think the episodes so far have been inspired by The Bible. If you catch my meaning...

  • July 25, 2007 11:26 AM CST

    this show is incredible television

    by prbt

    If people don't like it, I honestly feel sorry for them.

  • August 3, 2007 1:40 AM CST

    tarot

    by Pabodie

    Shawnie's juggling is really sticking in my head. Just saying.